Hello everyone. I have just discovered this site and hope to become a part of your community.

I have become convinced that I must tell my story or go crazy from keeping it bottled up inside me.

I have searched for a legitimate expression of my feelings, but incest is such a hot topic that most mainstream outlets offer no safe haven. I am new to this particular site, but at first glance, it appears that the majority of members seem to accept this lifestyle. Kudos to the administrators and moderators for creating such a nice website!

I have visited other incest forums but they only seem to be interested in sharing doctored ******* I am looking for a place to discuss sex. Specifically incest. But, anything having to do with sexuality and sensuality appeals to me. Whether that be in the form of stories, jokes, polls, chit chat--- whatever! I love sex!

Suddenly I feel like Jed Clampett... "Come and listen to a story..."

My story is simple. I am an adult female and I am intimately involved with a male member of my family. I had never considered an incestuous relationship - save the school girl fantasies I had as a teenager exploring her sexuality.

My entire life was 'normal' and within society's boundaries. A long term relationship ended and I had to re-examine my life.

I have a wonderful career. I am active in sports, cultural activities, volunteer work. While I am not a supermodel or a ravishing beauty, I am not repulsive either! I would classify myself as attractive and leave it at that. I mean- I have never made anyone retch!

I take care of myself and have a pretty good outlook on life. All in all, I consider myself well-adjusted.

Where it gets tricky is trying to explain how this is possible while I am engaged in the most taboo form of fornication possible.

I live in the same neighborhood where I grew up. Familiar, comfortable surroundings help to keep me at ease. My father still lives in our family home even though he is alone in that rambling house.

We have had a long standing tradition of having Sunday dinner together. From many years ago when I first moved out on my own. After my mother died, I helped with the cooking and cleaning or we'd occasionally go to a restaurant.

My father started getting interested in getting out of the house more often. We both like to explore new and different types of restaurants each week. He is an orthopedic surgeon and professor at the medical school here. He has cut way back on his hours and surgeries and is finally taking the time to enjoy life and his passion-tennis.

We also play a few sets each week. I am the only female that can give him any kind of competition. Hardly a surprise since he taught me, coached me through my teenage years and still gives me pointers to this day.

After a particularly hard fought match, we came home and I showered in my old bathroom and got comfy in a new tennis outfit. We were supposed to go out to a very casual new diner. We only had to wait the requisite half hour before we were seated.

A simple mistake by our waiter set the tone for the evening. He asked if my 'husband' and I wanted the chateaubriand for 2 as it takes a while to cook. Instead of explaining that we were father-daughter and not husband and wife, we just nodded our heads. When he came back with our drink order, it got worse. He was quite chatty!

He told us that we looked really good together and it was obvious we were very much in love. Now, I don't know if he was angling for a tip or what, but it did give me food for thought.

I think it did the same for my father. I would catch him staring at me throughout the meal with a strange expression on his face. But we got to talking about work and current events and I soon forgot the whole tone of the evening.

We finished dinner and then went out to their terrace for a nightcap around the bar. The warm weather and early hour made for a crowded piece of real estate! We were squished together as the rock music blared over the speakers. My father had to keep shouting in my ear so I could hear him.

I guess I was just in that frame of mind, but when his lips brushed against my ear, I jumped! The old cliche of feeling a stab of electricity shoot through my body was indeed happening! I instinctively grabbed his arm and leaned into him.

I guess it was at that point that he picked up on the same line of thinking. We decided to head home since it was so noisy. I can't remember what we talked about in the car, but it was harmless as both our minds were working overtime trying to figure out what was happening.

We got home and my father turned on the stereo. That took me aback as his first inclination was always to turn on the tv. I wasn't sure what this meant. He looked at me and said "We need to talk"

"I am having thoughts and feelings for you that are totally inappropriate."

OK, that was pretty straightforward. And it mimicked what I was thinking. We sat and stared at each other as a riff from a George Benson song played in the background.

He did make the first move-he came over and reached out his hand to help me off the couch. He took me in his arms for a dance. How many times had we done this same thing - innocently before? When I was in 7th grade and we were practicing for our first father/daughter dance at school. At various family weddings. Just goofing round in the back yard. Why was it now taking on a whole different meaning?

I don't know-but it did. Suddenly, he was not my father. He was a man. A very handsome and desirable man that was sexually attractive to me. A man that I was thinking of kissing at that moment. A man who, in my mind's eye in that instant, was naked and poised over me ready to shove his cock inside me.

As soon as his hand reached out to stroke my face, I knew he was feeling the same things. In the few milliseconds that his head moved closer to my face, I knew what was happening but I was powerless to stop it. Not that I wanted to. Everything was working in slow motion.

His mouth was inches away from mine. I felt his breath on my nose and upper lip. We each cocked our heads to the right and he moved in for a kiss. When his lips touched mine, an involuntary moan escaped my throat.

They say you never forget your first kiss with someone. And I believe that is true. His lips were soft, yet strong. He pressed and mashed them against mine for a few seconds. Actually, softly at first and then with increasing pressure.

I felt him open his mouth, so I parted my lips in the hope that he would soon follow with his tongue. He didn't disappoint! We danced and dueled and engaged in tongue play - moving our heads and practically trying to jump down each other's throats.

I was so enjoying this kiss-fest that it still hadn't really sunk in that I was 'swapping spit' with my father! Again, we both seemed to realize that at the same time.

We broke apart for air, stared at each other and stumbled all over ourselves-searching for the right thing to say. Instead, we came back together for more lip locking. This time, my hands went up to the back of his head to draw him closer. His arms wrapped around me and pulled me into a tight embrace.

At this point, words were superfluous. It was obvious what was going to happen next.

For our own mental health and later deniability, we seemed to both treat this as if the other person were just a new lover. We wordlessly walked to the master bedroom. When my father reached out and pulled my shirt over my head, I held my breath. He came up behind me and nuzzled my neck as he reached around to pop open my bra.

He circled me so that he could position himself directly in front of me. My breasts spilled out and seemed to blossom as his eyes scanned them.

I grabbed his hand and placed it on the fleshy swell of my breast. I kept eye contact as I slid it down towards my nipple. By this time, I felt them hardening and sticking straight out. His hand grazed over top of them and then started squeezing and massaging them.

He bent down and lifted one to his mouth. His lips were so warm and wet. He planted soft kisses in circles. Then he began licking and lightly nibbling. I pulled his head tight and said out loud,

"Please suck them. Please suck my tits- hard"

He obliged. And I couldn't stand it! He alternated sides. It felt intensely erotic standing there topless while I still wore my short tennis skirt and shoes! He moved his hands down my stomach, over the top of that skirt until his fingers wrapped around the hem.

He smoothed his hands flat against my thighs and massaged me for a few minutes without really moving anywhere. When I spread my legs a little, his hands began moving up. They hesitated a few seconds at the hem of my panties. He rubbed the outside of my crotch and moaned when he felt the wetness and the heat there.

Then he slipped the panties to the side and rubbed his finger up and down my slit. This time I moaned! I was so wet. So ready. I pushed his hand away and stepped back. I unzipped my skirt and let it fall to the floor. I stepped out of my shoes and stood before him naked.

Yes, naked as the day I was born.

The irony of that thought was not lost on either of us.

I looked down at his crotch and saw that he was fully erect. I reached out and gave it a quick squeeze. I unzipped his pants and while I was weak in the knees, I cannot blame that on the fact that I fell to the ground and took hold of his penis! I looked it over and then moved to lick it all over. I went from stem to stern. I licked the head and then up and down his shaft. I took him in my mouth and sucked. I felt his hands in my hair. His breathing was quite ragged and exaggerated. I stopped and let his penis pop out of my mouth. I walked towards the bed, turned around and indicated he should follow me.

I am Irene from germany. I am a mother and I live together with my daughter.
We are in love.

I ve read your story and I must admit, it is very well written. It touches my heart and it remembers to me what I was felt, when my daughter kissed me the first time as a lover, not as a daughter...
I hope you will write more...

I am sure, that you are here at the right place to discuss ANY topic here. This is a good site.

So I say you this: use this board. it has many ways to talk here, even chat-rooms.
And welcome aboard.

Irene

I suppose I should have started at the beginning by providing a brief introduction and description of myself. Kinda rude to just barge into a room and start talking when none of you knows the first thing about me!

But, that's just one of my many endearing and charming qualities! LOL I have a big mouth. I am loud. No shrinking violet here, folks! I talk a lot-not that this is a surprise after that novel length first post! And here I was worried that you all would complain about how much I 'talk' and instead, you say such lovely things about my writing! Wow. Oh, and thank you, 'Daddy'. Ooooh, that sounds nice, doesnt it?

To answer your question, ConniesMan, I am 28 years old. I work hard and play hard. I am a very sexual being. I love sex. I think about sex constantly. I think I am insatiable sometimes! I never get enough. Or at least never as much as I want! I think I have more testosterone floating around my body than a woman should have!

I keep in shape by playing tennis and swimming. I don't really 'work out' per se, but I guess it is something I should start thinking about. I don't really need to go into the specifics here do I? About my looks, that is. Suffice it to say, when I look into mirrors, they don't usually crack. OK-just that one time, but in all fairness, it was early in the morning and I didn't have any makeup on and, well, even supermodels have bad hair days, ya know!

Anyway, I am fairly tall and have long legs. Everything is in proportion and wrapped up in a nice package.

My father is 54 and in great shape. He and my mother were such a wonderful match! (She died from a long battle with cancer almost 8 years ago.)

But, back to the reason for this post. Incest. OK, before I go any further I might as well admit up front how much that word alone turns me on. Goodness-the taboo. The forbidden. The naughty. The wild. The unspeakable. Don't you all feel the same way? Have the same reaction?

It was always very titillating to think about. But to have actually participated in it has been better than anything I could have ever imagined.

Anyway, since all of you were kind enough to ask, I suppose I should finish recounting what happened that first night. My father approached me and I helped him finish undressing. I sat down on the edge of the bed and he stepped up and stood right in front of me.

His cock stood proudly at attention and bobbed up and down as fast and furious as a Mexican jumping bean! My hand reached out to steady it and again, I leaned over to get closer to it. I stopped for a minute and just inhaled. My favorite part of a blow job is just before I start. When my partner is so excited that he can hardly contain himself! My father was no exception. He was looking down at me watching intently wondering what my next move was to be.

I stuck out my tongue and licked the head, rimming the underside of the crown and back over top where I stuck it inside his little slit. Then I took the tip of my tongue and worked my way down one side of his shaft and back up the other. I softly kissed the head before making another pass. (one thing I was sure of: my father would no doubt be impressed by my technique. Of course, being my father, he might also wonder where I learned to do all this!)

I flattened my tongue and took wide swipes around his shaft. Up and down and all around. I made my way down to his ball sac. I do believe I shocked him when I licked his balls and then used my teeth to gently scrape them. He grabbed my hair when my tongue found the little patch of skin beneath his balls and in front of his rectum.

I came back up and hovered over his cock for a few seconds. I think that is when it hit me. Full force. My God. I was about to take my father's penis in my mouth! I opened my mouth and as soon as his head passed my lips and landed on my tongue, my pussy twitched below.

I took him in deeper and deeper- probably looking just like those little bobblehead dolls they give away at the stadiums! I relaxed my throat and used my tongue to swirl all around the circumference. My other hand was actually massaging my dad's balls!

I sucked and licked and used my teeth, lips, gums and tongue to give as much pleasure to him as I could. I looked up into his eyes to find him glancing down as I worked my magic on his pole.

I knew he wasn't going to last much longer. I could feel the cum rising in his balls. His thrusting as he fucked my face became wild. I held on for the ride though! When he announced that he was going to come, I steeled myself for the onslaught.

When I felt the first hot jets of his cum, I swallowed fast and furious. Each thick, rope of his cream sent me over the edge. I savored his taste. I wasn't sure how he would react, but I kept the last few globs in my mouth. He sat down (collapsed actually!) next to me. I leaned over to kiss him and share his sperm. Apparently no one had ever done that to him before. He was shocked and surprised but he didn't complain.

Oh dear, I've written another novel. Sorry. No time left to write about how we talked things over, rested for a bit and then decided to have intercourse. I will come back tomorrow to write more.

I remember you splashing into IT not long ago. Good to see you here, where stories, true and fantastic, written exchange, and, on ocassion, dialogue , fill the forum.

IT is fine if you like pix, but for INCEST related discussion, this is my fave.

Welcome, I hope you like this place, and its folk, as much as I do.

Be Well,

quote:

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Originally posted by b4rry:
............sometimes I think it gets more than its share of linguistically impaired folks. [snipped]

---

Yes, we do get a mumber of those. And while it is lovely to read such writings as those of Honeychile and other gifted writers, I don't want to see less gifted contributors being deterred.

Some people are lacking in communication skills, but they are still thinking, feeling people who's points of view we still want to hear. Correct spelling and good grammer make the reading easier, but they are not the be-all and end-all of everything. I would urge anyone who wants to write, to do so without fear of undue criticism.

By and large we are not a bad lot, except to those who frown upon our preferred subject.

Colleen.

quote:

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Originally posted by Honeychile:
Oh my goodness! Thank you all so much for your kind words and support. I knew that this would be a warm and welcoming family.

I suppose I should have started at the beginning by providing a brief introduction and description of myself. Kinda rude to just barge into a room and start talking when none of you knows the first thing about me!

But, that's just one of my many endearing and charming qualities! LOL I have a big mouth. I am loud. No shrinking violet here, folks! I talk a lot-not that this is a surprise after that novel length first post! And here I was worried that you all would complain about how much I 'talk' and instead, you say such lovely things about my writing! Wow. Oh, and thank you, 'Daddy'. Ooooh, that sounds nice, doesnt it?

To answer your question, ConniesMan, I am 28 years old. I work hard and play hard. I am a very sexual being. I love sex. I think about sex constantly. I think I am insatiable sometimes! I never get enough. Or at least never as much as I want! I think I have more testosterone floating around my body than a woman should have!

I keep in shape by playing tennis and swimming. I don't really 'work out' per se, but I guess it is something I should start thinking about. I don't really need to go into the specifics here do I? About my looks, that is. Suffice it to say, when I look into mirrors, they don't usually crack. OK-just that one time, but in all fairness, it was early in the morning and I didn't have any makeup on and, well, even supermodels have bad hair days, ya know!

Anyway, I am fairly tall and have long legs. Everything is in proportion and wrapped up in a nice package.

My father is 54 and in great shape. He and my mother were such a wonderful match! (She died from a long battle with cancer almost 8 years ago.)

But, back to the reason for this post. [b]Incest. OK, before I go any further I might as well admit up front how much that word alone turns me on. Goodness-the taboo. The forbidden. The naughty. The wild. The unspeakable. Don't you all feel the same way? Have the same reaction?

It was always very titillating to think about. But to have actually participated in it has been better than anything I could have ever imagined.

Anyway, since all of you were kind enough to ask, I suppose I should finish recounting what happened that first night. My father approached me and I helped him finish undressing. I sat down on the edge of the bed and he stepped up and stood right in front of me.

His cock stood proudly at attention and bobbed up and down as fast and furious as a Mexican jumping bean! My hand reached out to steady it and again, I leaned over to get closer to it. I stopped for a minute and just inhaled. My favorite part of a blow job is just before I start. When my partner is so excited that he can hardly contain himself! My father was no exception. He was looking down at me watching intently wondering what my next move was to be.

I stuck out my tongue and licked the head, rimming the underside of the crown and back over top where I stuck it inside his little slit. Then I took the tip of my tongue and worked my way down one side of his shaft and back up the other. I softly kissed the head before making another pass. (one thing I was sure of: my father would no doubt be impressed by my technique. Of course, being my father, he might also wonder where I learned to do all this!)

I flattened my tongue and took wide swipes around his shaft. Up and down and all around. I made my way down to his ball sac. I do believe I shocked him when I licked his balls and then used my teeth to gently scrape them. He grabbed my hair when my tongue found the little patch of skin beneath his balls and in front of his rectum.

I came back up and hovered over his cock for a few seconds. I think that is when it hit me. Full force. My God. I was about to take my father's penis in my mouth! I opened my mouth and as soon as his head passed my lips and landed on my tongue, my pussy twitched below.

I took him in deeper and deeper- probably looking just like those little bobblehead dolls they give away at the stadiums! I relaxed my throat and used my tongue to swirl all around the circumference. My other hand was actually massaging my dad's balls!

I sucked and licked and used my teeth, lips, gums and tongue to give as much pleasure to him as I could. I looked up into his eyes to find him glancing down as I worked my magic on his pole.

I knew he wasn't going to last much longer. I could feel the cum rising in his balls. His thrusting as he fucked my face became wild. I held on for the ride though! When he announced that he was going to come, I steeled myself for the onslaught.

When I felt the first hot jets of his cum, I swallowed fast and furious. Each thick, rope of his cream sent me over the edge. I savored his taste. I wasn't sure how he would react, but I kept the last few globs in my mouth. He sat down (collapsed actually!) next to me. I leaned over to kiss him and share his sperm. Apparently no one had ever done that to him before. He was shocked and surprised but he didn't complain.

Oh dear, I've written another novel. Sorry. No time left to write about how we talked things over, rested for a bit and then decided to have intercourse. I will come back tomorrow to write more.

And Colleen and Irene, I am so glad there are other women here. I can't wait to interact with you more and read all your stories.[/B]

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Linguistic skills are a beautiful thing to have since they help give our thoughts and feelings much greater dimension -- both for ourselves and for others. And they're compounding too, allowing us to grow further with time. Hence I find today's state of linguistic skills saddening. I strongly encourage any and all to work to improve themselves in this area. The results will be rewarding.

I enjoy looking at pictures as much as the next gal, but I prefer conversation. In fact, in one thread I had to chastise some guy for rolling his eyes at me because I actually wanted to have a discussion on a discussion board!!! Imagine that! LOL

That was more than kind of you to say. Your eloquence certainly makes it easy for me to feel welcomed here. I am noticing that all of you are indeed so very generous in your praise. It makes me feel so good to know that my words can touch you like this. Whodathunk it?

Well, I am going to post the last part of my story in 2 installments since, as you can tell, I am a bit wordy!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After my father shot his spooge down my throat and I swallowed it like a madwoman, we sat silently for a few moments to let it all sink in. As I said, my God, I had my father's penis in my mouth!!! Further, I had sucked him off and made him climax. The enormity of this fact weighed heavily on us both.

A rush of words counteracted any discomfort we were feeling. We both managed to admit that my oral loving was enjoyable for us both. My father lovingly caressed my face, sweeping my hair out of the way. He leaned over and we kissed with such a great passion that I started squirming and wiggling around.

He knew I needed some attention. Of course, I was not shy when asking him to go down on me. He pushed me onto my back and then proceeded to slather me with kisses. He started off softly on my forehead. Planting soft little pecks there and on my closed eyelids. He covered the bridge of my nose and over to both cheeks. He landed very soft, smooth kisses on my lips and then licked them with soft stabs of his tongue.

He then proceeded to give me an all over tongue bath from the neck down. He paused briefly at the nape of my neck as if his tongue was trying to measure my pulse. He followed my breastbone down the middle. In the meantime, his hands were lightly caressing my body as a followup to his mouth.

His feathery touch was such a wonderful combination of pain and pleasure. Tickling and soothing at the same time! I held my breath as he started circling my areolas, Licking them, kissing them and rolling his tongue across my nipple.

I have very sensitive nipples. They pebble up at the slightest provocation! Whether a slight breeze, air conditioning, under the gaze of a man, when the fabric of my blouse rubs against them......really... anything makes them stand up at attention!

I suppose I inherited that from my mother because he seemed to know about that and did everything he could including licking them and then blowing air across them. I could feel them stiffening up for him. I was very happy that he could see how excited I was becoming.

He took one nipple into his mouth and bit me lightly. I raised up off the bed to shove my breast further in his mouth. I encouraged him to bite harder and he sat back for a minute and said "Somehow I knew a daughter of mine would love having her breasts mauled!" I smiled and told him to continue.

He gave equal attention to both of my breasts and I heard him whimpering as each one filled his mouth. He was enjoying rolling my rubbery little nibs around on his tongue every bit as much as I was.

I felt him moving, lowering himself as he inched his way south. He trailed a bit of saliva as he closed in on my belly button and then down towards my mound. He stopped to look at my patch of hair. A big grin lit up his face. "It looks like an arrow pointing the way," he exclaimed.

I decided to help out and used my hands to separate my outer lips. He stared at my pinkness and I think he was savoring my aroma too. Finally, my father knelt down and positioned himself so that his mouth was plastered over my pussy.

I felt such a rush of excitement as his tongue bathed my entire region. The minute he actually stuck it inside my hole, I jumped! My father was tongue fucking me! And it wasn't a dream. It was really happening. This was too wild to believe.

He spent some time poking me with his stiff tongue and then would pull out and go exploring my labia. He licked from the top of my wet gash down towards my ass and back up again.

When he found my clit, he paid a great deal of attention to it. I must say, he was quite masterful at coaxing it out of it's hood and causing all sorts of sensations. He licked me so softly and teased me so! When he took my little button in his mouth and sucked on it, I came for the first time.

My hips bucked up off the bed and I nearly gave him a concussion when I banged into his face! OK-so anytime you get a new lover, there are adjustments to be made! LOL You have to work together to establish a rhythm. But that is what makes taking a new lover so damned exciting. And fun. Sex should always be fun. Don't you agree?

And when it is funny-like banging into each other or falling off or being knocked in the face with a stray boob or testicle, well, that makes it a memorable experience too. Life, after all, is not like a porn story where all the men have 10 inch dicks and all the women are babes with 36DDD tits who know how to find the G-Spot within seconds or suck a man to climax every 10 minutes!

He continued to tantalize and please me orally for what seemed like hours. I can't recall a man ever enjoying himself so much before. He truly made me feel like the only woman on earth with his attention and devotion and obvious enjoyment.

He fingered me while his lips sucked my clit. When one hand went to my backdoor and he shoved a finger in my dark tunnel, I came again. I could feel his erection returning and just as I was about to ask him, he announced that he wanted to fuck me.

He climbed up on top of me, straddled my legs and pointed his dick right at my opening. We got nervous - and time stopped momentarily. Considering what we have been doing for the last 2 hours, it seemed a bit ridiculous to all of a sudden have developed a conscience about things. But that is exactly what happened.

"Honey, if we have intercourse, there is no turning back."

I told him that I had never wanted anything more than to feel him inside me. It was our destiny. We had to become one. I truly believed that we were meant to fuse bodies and souls. Good God, we couldn't stop now.

I told him to make love to me. I reached up to help him guide his cock inside my twat. That perilous journey we took was intoxicating.

From the instant his penis entered my vagina, everything changed. I was on fire. Every nerve ending in my body was alive. He formed a perfect fit inside me as my
pussy adjusted to his width and length.

I cannot even begin to do justice to describing the wondrous feelings and emotions I experienced. I was so aroused thinking about (and feeling) my father fucking me! It was a magnificent combination of sexual excitement and overwhelming love.

We were wild though. Tossing and turning every which way! We flipped on to our sides and settled down momentarily to catch our breath and kiss and coo and talk to each other.

Over and over he told me how much he loved me. And I said it right back to him.

I pushed him on his back and climbed on top of him. I straddled his hips and hovered for a moment over him. I placed his cock at the entrance to my pussy once again and slowly lowered myself. I sat there motionless just enjoying the fullness inside and then I took my right hand and began massaging my clit. He watched, intrigued.

I brought myself off to another climax as I started squeezing his dick with my vaginal muscles. He told me how beautiful it was so watch me pleasure myself.

I leaned down to kiss him and he took hold of my breasts and started massaging them. Then he sat up to lick and kiss them. I reluctantly pulled away and sat up vertically. I began fucking him. I worked myself into a very hard and intense motion of bouncing up and down on that thick cock of his. I grunted on every downstroke.

He grabbed onto my hips to slow me down. He told me he wanted to try as many positions as possible. So, over I went on to my knees.

I admitted to him that I was very fond of doggy style and he laughed! I gasped when he plunged into me from behind. I started to think that my father's cock was going to come out my mouth, he was going so deep!

Finally, realizing he couldn't last much longer, he pulled out and flipped me back onto my back. He pulled my legs above his shoulders-and around his ears. He said he just had to see my face when he came.

He really started thrusting hard into me. I was screaming and moaning at the same time. Very much like an animal sound. He pinned my arms down and I saw his face tighten up and I knew he was going to release. When I saw his eyes close and felt his cock expel it's contents in my pussy, I lost control.

I was making love to my daddy, The man whose sperm created me. The man who raised me. The man who taught me so many things. This was the same man who just gave me the biggest sexual thrill I had ever had. Probably the biggest orgasm I had ever experienced.

I am sure it wasn't just the fact that he was a very skilled lover that did it for me. It was the fact that this was so absolutely taboo. Father-daughter fucking. Doesn't get much more verboten than that!

If only I were more eloquent, I could explain how this made me feel. It was like I was the most sexual and sensual female on the planet. It was as if this man was made for me. Although, of course the opposite is true. I was made for him.

He was my designer and architect. He molded my clay and then forged it into his own private vessel. A loving cup, perhaps?

Your story has reminded me of the reasons I was so attracted to incest to begin with. The feeling of taboo. The air of naughty-ness found no where else. But mostly.....the love. That special love that you have between close family members who are able to give themselves over to this bliss...

I've loved your story from the first time I read it in IT, and find it among the happiest of my recollection AND fantasies of how an incestuous relationship can be.

Lucky lady, Lucky Dad.

Lucky Us, to share it with you.

quote:

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Originally posted by Honeychile:
But to engage in intercourse. Penetration was a very deliberate act.

I told him that I had never wanted anything more than to feel him inside me. It was our destiny. We had to become one. I truly believed that we were meant to fuse bodies and souls. Good God, we couldn't stop now.

I told him to make love to me. I reached up to help him guide his cock inside my twat. That perilous journey we took was intoxicating.

From the instant his penis entered my vagina, everything changed. I was on fire. Every nerve ending in my body was alive. He formed a perfect fit inside me as my
pussy adjusted to his width and length.

I cannot even begin to do justice to describing the wondrous feelings and emotions I experienced. I was so aroused thinking about (and feeling) my father fucking me! It was a magnificent combination of sexual excitement and overwhelming love.

We were wild though. Tossing and turning every which way! We flipped on to our sides and settled down momentarily to catch our breath and kiss and coo and talk to each other.

Over and over he told me how much he loved me. And I said it right back to him.

I pushed him on his back and climbed on top of him. I straddled his hips and hovered for a moment over him. I placed his cock at the entrance to my pussy once again and slowly lowered myself. I sat there motionless just enjoying the fullness inside and then I took my right hand and began massaging my clit. He watched, intrigued.

I brought myself off to another climax as I started squeezing his dick with my vaginal muscles. He told me how beautiful it was so watch me pleasure myself.

I leaned down to kiss him and he took hold of my breasts and started massaging them. Then he sat up to lick and kiss them. I reluctantly pulled away and sat up vertically. I began fucking him. I worked myself into a very hard and intense motion of bouncing up and down on that thick cock of his. I grunted on every downstroke.

He grabbed onto my hips to slow me down. He told me he wanted to try as many positions as possible. So, over I went on to my knees.

I admitted to him that I was very fond of doggy style and he laughed! I gasped when he plunged into me from behind. I started to think that my father's cock was going to come out my mouth, he was going so deep!

Finally, realizing he couldn't last much longer, he pulled out and flipped me back onto my back. He pulled my legs above his shoulders-and around his ears. He said he just had to see my face when he came.

He really started thrusting hard into me. I was screaming and moaning at the same time. Very much like an animal sound. He pinned my arms down and I saw his face tighten up and I knew he was going to release. When I saw his eyes close and felt his cock expel it's contents in my pussy, I lost control.

I was making love to my daddy, The man whose sperm created me. The man who raised me. The man who taught me so many things. This was the same man who just gave me the biggest sexual thrill I had ever had. Probably the biggest orgasm I had ever experienced.

I am sure it wasn't just the fact that he was a very skilled lover that did it for me. It was the fact that this was so absolutely taboo. Father-daughter fucking. Doesn't get much more verboten than that!

If only I were more eloquent, I could explain how this made me feel. It was like I was the most sexual and sensual female on the planet. It was as if this man was made for me. Although, of course the opposite is true. I was made for him.

He was my designer and architect. He molded my clay and then forged it into his own private vessel. A loving cup, perhaps?

God, I love this man!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Honeychile:
But to engage in intercourse. Penetration was a very deliberate act.

I told him that I had never wanted anything more than to feel him inside me. It was our destiny. We had to become one. I truly believed that we were meant to fuse bodies and souls. Good God, we couldn't stop now.

I told him to make love to me. I reached up to help him guide his cock inside my twat. That perilous journey we took was intoxicating.

From the instant his penis entered my vagina, everything changed. I was on fire. Every nerve ending in my body was alive. He formed a perfect fit inside me as my
pussy adjusted to his width and length.

I cannot even begin to do justice to describing the wondrous feelings and emotions I experienced. I was so aroused thinking about (and feeling) my father fucking me! It was a magnificent combination of sexual excitement and overwhelming love.

We were wild though. Tossing and turning every which way! We flipped on to our sides and settled down momentarily to catch our breath and kiss and coo and talk to each other.

Over and over he told me how much he loved me. And I said it right back to him.

I pushed him on his back and climbed on top of him. I straddled his hips and hovered for a moment over him. I placed his cock at the entrance to my pussy once again and slowly lowered myself. I sat there motionless just enjoying the fullness inside and then I took my right hand and began massaging my clit. He watched, intrigued.

I brought myself off to another climax as I started squeezing his dick with my vaginal muscles. He told me how beautiful it was so watch me pleasure myself.

I leaned down to kiss him and he took hold of my breasts and started massaging them. Then he sat up to lick and kiss them. I reluctantly pulled away and sat up vertically. I began fucking him. I worked myself into a very hard and intense motion of bouncing up and down on that thick cock of his. I grunted on every downstroke.

He grabbed onto my hips to slow me down. He told me he wanted to try as many positions as possible. So, over I went on to my knees.

I admitted to him that I was very fond of doggy style and he laughed! I gasped when he plunged into me from behind. I started to think that my father's cock was going to come out my mouth, he was going so deep!

Finally, realizing he couldn't last much longer, he pulled out and flipped me back onto my back. He pulled my legs above his shoulders-and around his ears. He said he just had to see my face when he came.

He really started thrusting hard into me. I was screaming and moaning at the same time. Very much like an animal sound. He pinned my arms down and I saw his face tighten up and I knew he was going to release. When I saw his eyes close and felt his cock expel it's contents in my pussy, I lost control.

I was making love to my daddy, The man whose sperm created me. The man who raised me. The man who taught me so many things. This was the same man who just gave me the biggest sexual thrill I had ever had. Probably the biggest orgasm I had ever experienced.

I am sure it wasn't just the fact that he was a very skilled lover that did it for me. It was the fact that this was so absolutely taboo. Father-daughter fucking. Doesn't get much more verboten than that!

If only I were more eloquent, I could explain how this made me feel. It was like I was the most sexual and sensual female on the planet. It was as if this man was made for me. Although, of course the opposite is true. I was made for him.

He was my designer and architect. He molded my clay and then forged it into his own private vessel. A loving cup, perhaps?

God, I love this man!

---

Honeychile: Wow. Quite simply, Wow.

It's so nice to see & know that a few out in this club are real people who are not about knocking down or E-Mailing Flames at or to others. When the club was new I my self was flamed a lot by one jerk pen named some thing like "Black Beard 666" who changed his pen name many times & then set about acting like the Catholic Church of late in that one & all are to do as they say not as they do...
I'd love to may be some chat with you & the true real few others who are into incest in a truly loving life. Do look up my E-Mail Box Address on & in my club profile, I have it & my Yahoo ProFile listed. May be we can some time get together for a party or some thing. Thanks for your story too. Let me know if you wish, just send me an E-Mail.

It's so nice to see & know that a few out in this club are real people who are not about knocking down or E-Mailing Flames at or to others. When the club was new I my self was flamed a lot by one jerk pen named some thing like "Black Beard 666" who changed his pen name many times & then set about acting like the Catholic Church of late in that one & all are to do as they say not as they do...
I'd love to may be some time chat with you & with the true real, few others who are into incest in a truly loving life...

Do look up my E-Mail Box Address on & in my club profile, I have it & my Yahoo ProFile listed. May be we can some time get together for a party or some thing...

Thanks for your story too. Let me know if you wish, just send me an E-Mail...

Last I my self am truly looking for a few real loving ladies to be in & for my life as my "Mother, Aunt, Sister, Daughter, or Niece" are any out in this club? Do let me know.

Let me clarify one thing right up front. I am not a writer! All I did was describe what happened to me. Just a conversation that I typed instead of verbalized. But I wouldn't have a clue to how to write a story. I wouldn't know where to begin. To create characters and have it all make sense. I'll leave that to the writers of erotica. The best I could hope for would be to be a porn writer. And there is a huge difference between the two.

I mean, any idiot can fill a page with "Oooooooooooooooooooooh Daddy. I'm cuummmmmmmmmmmmmminnnnnnnnnngggggggg". !!!

That doesn't make them a writer.

In relating my experience here and sharing it with you, I wanted to convey and emphasize the beauty of a love story. I also happen to love sex and wanted to describe the sexuality and lust and passion that comes from something so taboo.

That some of you could relate in some small way - to either my deeply romantic love for my father or the raw heat I felt during our copulation pleases me greatly.

Let me clarify one thing right up front. I am not a writer! All I did was describe what happened to me. Just a conversation that I typed instead of verbalized. But I wouldn't have a clue to how to write a story. I wouldn't know where to begin. To create characters and have it all make sense. I'll leave that to the writers of erotica. The best I could hope for would be to be a porn writer. And there is a huge difference between the two.

I mean, any idiot can fill a page with "Oooooooooooooooooooooh Daddy. I'm cuummmmmmmmmmmmmminnnnnnnnnngggggggg". !!!

That doesn't make them a writer.

In relating my experience here and sharing it with you, I wanted to convey and emphasize the beauty of a love story. I also happen to love sex and wanted to describe the sexuality and lust and passion that comes from something so taboo.

That some of you could relate in some small way - to either my deeply romantic love for my father or the raw heat I felt during our copulation pleases me greatly.

I have lots of sexual experiences I could relate but why don't some of you start some threads so I can catch up and learn more about you!

I would hate to accidentally forget anyone's kindness:

qeylat- thanks, but see above. I am not a writer! lol

nick - I think that is the best compliment I could have gotten. I am flabbergasted that you copied and pasted my words so you could read them again! Wow!

Remo- You gave me a huge smile with all your kind words

Amra- That is exactly what I was looking for at this board. People who 'get' me and who understand how thrilling all of this really is.

MSKnight- I hope your ordeal is over and you can feel good about joining in here again

Daddy- *gulp* Daddy. Gotta love that name! You are the one who is articulate and expressive. You understand me perfectly. You took my imagery and expounded on it to bring a much fuller and richer emotion to the mix. Please point me in the direction of any thread where you told your story as I would love to read it. To answer your question, though, no...

quote:

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Originally posted by Honeychile:
Grrrr. I [b]knew that was going to happen! lol

I would hate to accidentally forget anyone's kindness:

qeylat- thanks, but see above. I am not a writer! lol

nick - I think that is the best compliment I could have gotten. I am flabbergasted that you copied and pasted my words so you could read them again! Wow!

Remo- You gave me a huge smile with all your kind words

Amra- That is exactly what I was looking for at this board. People who 'get' me and who understand how thrilling all of this really is.

MSKnight- I hope your ordeal is over and you can feel good about joining in here again

Daddy- *gulp* Daddy. Gotta love that name! You are the one who is articulate and expressive. You understand me perfectly. You took my imagery and expounded on it to bring a much fuller and richer emotion to the mix. Please point me in the direction of any thread where you told your story as I would love to read it. To answer your question, though, no...

My father is the first one to tell me to live my life and find a man closer to my own age. He fears that I am wasting my time with "an old fogie"! I am not sure what the future holds. I do want children (but would never have one with him) and realistically I know that our age difference would pose challenges on us through the coming years.[/B]

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Honeychile, I do resonate with you. I am flattered that you feel I understand you so well. What may be even more amazing to us both is that I have no incest experience at all. I just listened and resonated with you and feel where the feelings you express may be heading or the essence of them, perhaps. But you are saying it all. I am allowing myself to be moved and resonate back to you. This, in itself, makes me feel closer to you.

Thank you for wanting to read my story. All I have on these postings is some responses to others. I forget where or what their headings, but I think you can search using my handle "Daddy". One thread I do recall is "You are what you eat." I get flack for being too philosophical.

Do you have email? I can tell you about myself there, if you wish. I'd like that.

Your story stuck with me. I was thinking about it on the way home just now on the bus. How you seem to have epitomized what incest can be, the richest sort of love story, not some sneaky, guilty, self-indulgence or power-tripping. I think that anyone who has criticism of incest should read your words because it would give pause to re-evaluate. I have printed (all 30-odd pages) of your story and all the replies so I can show them to somebody who may benefit sometime. That is if you do not mind? It is your story. Tell me, and I won't if you don't want me to.

What are your father and you going to do from here? Are you two in love? Sounds as if he has to get past his sense of age and ageing, and that you may have to reassure him. It is sobering to hear you say that there would be reality-based problems to having a child together. One of them might be the possibility of genetic defects. Still, do you have the feeling or wish to?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Honeychile:
Oh my goodness! Thank you all so much for your kind words and support. I knew that this would be a warm and welcoming family.

I suppose I should have started at the beginning by providing a brief introduction and description of myself. Kinda rude to just barge into a room and start talking when none of you knows the first thing about me!

But, that's just one of my many endearing and charming qualities! LOL I have a big mouth. I am loud. No shrinking violet here, folks! I talk a lot-not that this is a surprise after that novel length first post! And here I was worried that you all would complain about how much I 'talk' and instead, you say such lovely things about my writing! Wow. Oh, and thank you, 'Daddy'. Ooooh, that sounds nice, doesnt it?

To answer your question, ConniesMan, I am 28 years old. I work hard and play hard. I am a very sexual being. I love sex. I think about sex constantly. I think I am insatiable sometimes! I never get enough. Or at least never as much as I want! I think I have more testosterone floating around my body than a woman should have!

I keep in shape by playing tennis and swimming. I don't really 'work out' per se, but I guess it is something I should start thinking about. I don't really need to go into the specifics here do I? About my looks, that is. Suffice it to say, when I look into mirrors, they don't usually crack. OK-just that one time, but in all fairness, it was early in the morning and I didn't have any makeup on and, well, even supermodels have bad hair days, ya know!

Anyway, I am fairly tall and have long legs. Everything is in proportion and wrapped up in a nice package.

My father is 54 and in great shape. He and my mother were such a wonderful match! (She died from a long battle with cancer almost 8 years ago.)

But, back to the reason for this post. [b]Incest. OK, before I go any further I might as well admit up front how much that word alone turns me on. Goodness-the taboo. The forbidden. The naughty. The wild. The unspeakable. Don't you all feel the same way? Have the same reaction?

It was always very titillating to think about. But to have actually participated in it has been better than anything I could have ever imagined.

Anyway, since all of you were kind enough to ask, I suppose I should finish recounting what happened that first night. My father approached me and I helped him finish undressing. I sat down on the edge of the bed and he stepped up and stood right in front of me.

His cock stood proudly at attention and bobbed up and down as fast and furious as a Mexican jumping bean! My hand reached out to steady it and again, I leaned over to get closer to it. I stopped for a minute and just inhaled. My favorite part of a blow job is just before I start. When my partner is so excited that he can hardly contain himself! My father was no exception. He was looking down at me watching intently wondering what my next move was to be.

I stuck out my tongue and licked the head, rimming the underside of the crown and back over top where I stuck it inside his little slit. Then I took the tip of my tongue and worked my way down one side of his shaft and back up the other. I softly kissed the head before making another pass. (one thing I was sure of: my father would no doubt be impressed by my technique. Of course, being my father, he might also wonder where I learned to do all this!)

I flattened my tongue and took wide swipes around his shaft. Up and down and all around. I made my way down to his ball sac. I do believe I shocked him when I licked his balls and then used my teeth to gently scrape them. He grabbed my hair when my tongue found the little patch of skin beneath his balls and in front of his rectum.

I came back up and hovered over his cock for a few seconds. I think that is when it hit me. Full force. My God. I was about to take my father's penis in my mouth! I opened my mouth and as soon as his head passed my lips and landed on my tongue, my pussy twitched below.

I took him in deeper and deeper- probably looking just like those little bobblehead dolls they give away at the stadiums! I relaxed my throat and used my tongue to swirl all around the circumference. My other hand was actually massaging my dad's balls!

I sucked and licked and used my teeth, lips, gums and tongue to give as much pleasure to him as I could. I looked up into his eyes to find him glancing down as I worked my magic on his pole.

I knew he wasn't going to last much longer. I could feel the cum rising in his balls. His thrusting as he fucked my face became wild. I held on for the ride though! When he announced that he was going to come, I steeled myself for the onslaught.

When I felt the first hot jets of his cum, I swallowed fast and furious. Each thick, rope of his cream sent me over the edge. I savored his taste. I wasn't sure how he would react, but I kept the last few globs in my mouth. He sat down (collapsed actually!) next to me. I leaned over to kiss him and share his sperm. Apparently no one had ever done that to him before. He was shocked and surprised but he didn't complain.

Oh dear, I've written another novel. Sorry. No time left to write about how we talked things over, rested for a bit and then decided to have intercourse. I will come back tomorrow to write more.

And Colleen and Irene, I am so glad there are other women here. I can't wait to interact with you more and read all your stories.[/B]

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Another question, Honeychile: Now that you have fulfilled a lifelong fantasy/destiny, do you feel completed in some way? Do you feel--changed in some way? I am curious.You seem to have found your soulmate, your other half, in your father. Another question: how is it going to be to be with other men who are not your father? Can anyone compete with the experience you have just had, and for that matter, can you fully give yourself to anyone else now? Put in simplest terms: can you really be happy (or as happy) with anyone else now? I have always thought this is the bittersweet trap of incest: the happy incestor can never really leave home emotionally. Even if he/she physically leaves, "her heart belongs to daddy", as the wise old song says. Is it true?

First of all, before I answer your questions, may I make a suggestion to you? I am not sure if you are aware of it or not, but you don't really need to quote my entire posts back to me! These threads are pretty small so I can figure out what you are referring to. Or, if you wish to quote just certain parts of someone's comments, you can edit or 'snip' out the parts you don't need. (And Lord knows, my posts are long enough the first time around. Way too long to suffer through a 2nd or 3rd time!)

Your very flattering comment about printing out my story says it all. 30 odd pages? Boy, I really DO talk a lot! LOL I don't mind if you do that. After all, I posted it on the internet so that means it is pretty much considered 'in the public *****n'. It isn't copyrighted material like a story or news article or proprietary information!

Now to address your questions:

No, I don't long to procreate with my father. These things sound romantic or exciting when in the context of a story, but let's get real. Under the best conditions, genetic risks are too great to take chances.

As to whether or not this affects my relationships with other men....only time will tell. Doesn't every relationship we have color our judgment and reshape our thinking? Do we all not silently compare one lover to the next? Consciously or not? Do we not feel that when we fall in love with someone that we will never feel that way again for anyone else?

Actually, this was not a lifelong fantasy or dream come true, but, rather a result of circumstance. Although it certainly was life changing. I have had sex with my father! I am still having a sexual relationship with him. And it is wonderful. Goodness, it is the best damn sex I have ever had. Maybe because it is destiny. Or maybe because my body fits his perfectly. But that is not to say I won't have other lovers. He is already trying to wean me off him, so to speak. I don't like it, but I understand it.

But, again, we are both pragmatists. Where would we live? We couldn't legally marry. We'd have to give up our family as they would no doubt shun us. We'd have to assemble an entire set of new friends. We'd always run the risk of running into someone who would know us. What kind of life would that be? I don't think either of us would want to put the other in a compromising position. Especially on a daily basis. And neither of us would want to live like hermits and only be together for sex.

It is a fine line to straddle. Part of being an adult is knowing that we have to make sacrifices. We can't always get what we want. As much as I would love to be his wife and bear his children and live happily ever after, the odds of that happening are slim to none. I know it isn't realistic or pragmatic, but for now, I choose to live in the moment. Act like an ostrich and bury my head in the sand. Let the problems be something to worry about ... 'tomorrow'.

quote:

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Originally posted by b4rry:
Honeychile's answers to Daddy reminds me there seems to be at least one fundamental difference between same-generation incest and cross-generation incest in that cross-generation incest is often emotionally deep but mutually understood to be sort of a stage in life or something outside the normal growing up and out of the house progression while same-generation incest is more likely to be seen as part of the progression of life.

Comments?

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Interesting, B4rry. Off the top, sounds right-on. We'd have to get some input on that one from others.

quote:

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Originally posted by Honeychile posted July 22, 2002 11:43 PM

. . . . much snipping . . . .

Under the best conditions, genetic risks are too great to take chances.

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I speculate that there is enough genetic testing available today to minimize risk of serious genetic problems.

To me, the larger challenge would be rearing the offspring of a parent/child union. Society can be extremely vicious.

quote:

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Originally posted by dog:
I speculate that there is enough genetic testing available today to minimize risk of serious genetic problems.

To me, the larger challenge would be rearing the offspring of a parent/child union. Society can be extremely vicious.

+ Dog +

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Honeychile (and Dog) -- The results of a study from genetic counselors that looked into this was released earlier this year. I think there was a post on here about it. The study found that genetic defects normally run at < 2% and in first generation crossbreeding between close relatives genetic defects run around 6%. Close relatives was defined to exclude first cousins and others less closely related. Second generation crossbreeding at the same degree of kinship had considerably high defect rates. Also, these figures were from the entire study population, averaging families who've already seen genetic defects (due to whatever cause) in past generations with those that hadn't.
Consequently, the best advice for any two closely related individuals is to look at their own family history before conceiving.

quote:

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Originally posted by Daddy:
Interesting, B4rry. Off the top, sounds right-on. We'd have to get some input on that one from others.

I mean (giving some thought now), haven't you met or talked with women who "prefer older men" who turn out to have had incest or seriously fantasied it? It seems they are "out of the house" physically but, emotionally, "their heart belongs to Daddy", as the song goes. Fixation. Any first love (or powerful love) can do that, of course, as Honeychile suggested. But, we are talking about (in the best of circumstances) living with somebody for YEARS and being loved and protected (again, in the best of circumstances) and THEN adding sex to that mix. On the other hand, "first crushes" outside the family are much more sexual than emotionally deep, if I remember right. Hormones and all that. Then, the lifelong problem becomes trying to find someone with whom one is friends with first or actually loves and respects first (what a concept!) before (at least a few hours before) having sex with. In other words, having emotional intimacy first; at least, with women that is the usual way. So, if one starts off with an emotional bond to begin with--that is a whole other kind of relationship. Thoughts?

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While I haven't seen the specific study you cite, b4rry, I already question its findings. You say the parameters excluded first cousins and less closely related degrees of kinship. In a recent study I found, cases of father-daughter and brother-sister relationships, resulted in 42% of the offspring having chromosomal abnormalities. That is too great a risk to take, in my opinion.

I don't want to tempt fate where another human life is concerned. It would be horrible to see a child with mental retardation, blindness, or any other genetic defect from a family background as the result of a selfish choice on my part. I have no intention of playing Russian Roulette with a new life.

My other concern was, of course, the fact that my father is 26 years older than me. By the time our children were college age he would be in his 70s. And as you pointed out, in today's world, too many seniors are raising a 2nd generation of children. That is so unfair to them. I wouldn't want to burden my father that way either.

My daughter has blindness in one eye, where her grandmother only had a lazy eye.

Considering what other children are born with, I feel lucky. Yet, this was the result of my choice, where kids with Cystic Fibrosis, etc, were born of parents with little or no idea that defects would occur.

She's ok in all other ways, but I have to live with that.

There are ways to get genetic counselling, and some indication whether known defects would be propagated. That doesn't help for defects that are not common diseases.

I'd say having incestuous kids is for the young who are of known "excellent" genetic stock. And that's a tough one to judge. Who has any tests to differentiate "excellent" genetic pedigree from anything else ?

So, in the future, this may be something to test for, but for the present, it is for the dare-devils among us.

Guyre

quote:

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Originally posted by Daddy:
[B4rry, you and everybody seem to miss my big question I keep asking: what about fixation?? Remember what I asked about women who do leave home but whose "heart remains with daddy"? The ones who only prefer older men, according to them. Has nobody anything to say about this in an incest-context?

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Daddy, I didn't mean to imply what you're saying doesn't have merit, just that its a different point.

quote:

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Yes, I think all of us -- both male and female -- have a strong tendency to repeat a pattern or to even get "fixated." This 'taking the past into the future' can range from mild 'coincidence' to seriously problematic behavior. The latter cases might obviously gain from therapy. (Note: This tendency is true in general, not just in the context of incest.)[/B]

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B, thank you for responding. The fact that fixation is a problem generally is not the point. The point is that, in incest, it is a problem. More than this, I believe it is MORE of a problem in incest. That is why I brought it up. Don't you think it is??

Consider the example of a young child incested by a middle-aged parent. There is no comparison with later, more age-equal relationships. First, the child by virtue of its age is just more sensitive emotionally and sensually than most adults who by the time they are very developed have acquired layers of repression and have been more or less shut down emotionally and physically. (I can hear some say, "Speak for yourself, Daddy-o!") I am referring to degrees. Few of us would not agree that we were more sensitive as infants and children than we are now.

Second, the child is a pygmie next to the giant adult. In the animal and child world--and in adult too--size matters. What is bigger is stronger, and stronger can mean more harm can come when that giant is angry. The harsh tones of an adult who is angry--not to mention yelling--is huge to a tiny pair of ears with a sensitive nervous system. Imagine if somebody 2-4 times taller than you yelled at you!! So, size matters. It is intimidating when provoked. This means the child is going to fear an angry parent more than the more grown person will.

Third, the child actually emotionally depends on the adult for love and care. Not to mention, for survival. The child fears death at the withdrawal of parental love. That is why abandonment feelings are so severe and life-threatening. The child does not comprehend a manipulative parent who, on the street, turns away from the tiny child who is refusing to follow the giant parent and is perceived by the parent as "willful" and "bad"...and the parent says, "Alright, Johnny, Mommy is leaving now..." And walks away into the crowd! How this makes my guts twist, I want to hammer that parent! The child screams bloody murder--absolute terror!. The child has no idea the manipulative parent has no intention of leaving it there and is only using an emotional ploy. My point is that parents use devices to get what they want from children and children, being unsophisticated, REALLY BELIEVE they will be abandoned, or "my mommy will kill me" or (as one incested woman of twenty something said here), "if I do not give in to my dad, he will disown me." These childhood lessons learned at the feet of the giant last our lifetime.

Now, put all this together and see what you get: A tiny, helpless person is told by the giant parent--who holds life, death, love, care and physical safety in his/her hands at all times--wants the child to submit sexually. An edge in the voice hints "it will not please daddy/mommy" if the child refuses. Or, alternatively, the parent has the child's trust over a long time, and shows the child how much pleasure it gives him/her if the young person stimulates him/her genitally, etc. The child is long conditioned to please...and so he does. My point being that these experiences are VASTLY MORE POWERFUL than any experiences that could be learned subsequently--for all the reasons I gave and more. Consequently, aversions or fixations will be proportionately more intense and long-lasting. Simply put, the conditioning is stronger the younger the person is.

Coupled with this is the sheer undeniable uniqueness of incest. Never can a child have the same relationship simply because never can a child have a second blood-father or blood-mother.

Ya gotta see this one, B.

I've been thinking about your last post above:

1. It seems to paint a rather horrific picture of what its like to be a child, much more horrirific than what I've seen. To me, then, that alone makes me suspect you're carrying a point to far.

2. I don't think children perceive death anywhere near the same as older adults. Death is largely an abstract notion to kids (and even younger adults). Its simply something not on the horizon of their experience, so its more something intellectual than real.
However, what I have seen is that children, like the rest of us, are afraid of the unknown and therefore disturbed by any sense of possibly pending change.

quote:

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Originally posted by b4rry:
Amend my point 2 above: All fear is learned since a child comes into this world not knowing meanings beyond whatever associations acquired during pregnancy. Everything is an amorphous unknown until it acquires shape and meaning through experience.

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B: Thanks for taking the time to think about my posts in such detail. I am, of course, biassed by the fact the only close-up incest experience I have are second-hand and from my girl friend of the past. Her incest was horrific, the details of which I will not post they are so awful. I was quite shocked and in disbelief the first time she told her story. What convinced me was her tears and the truth in her voice. In any event, my comments above (and on othe threads) are my attempts to make sense out of her experience contrasted with the "good" incest experiences I have heard the majority of the time here. To explain to myself if these are denials, repressions, etc. Until I became convinced that there are both "good" and "bad" incest experiences. And that some can be "converted" later, the way a new poster has written today so eloquently about his girlfriend who was a sister, and how they had a pleasurable experience but then guilt moved in and it changed them both, one much more than the other, for life. What was essentially remembered as positive became remembered as a painfully crippling experience in one sister. Point being, the experience got converted.

I also rely for my conclusions on my own perception of my own childhood. I have undergone Primal Therapy, which you may know involves re-experiencing childhood pain all over again. One gradually goes through it until it is literally gone, or most of it anyway. On the way, one re-feels what it is to be a child, the painful stuff. One screams, kicks, bites, weeps, beats the bed. It is all about the feeling of abandonment. Yes, Barry, the child does fear annihilation, death. It is in the genes and in the body. It is not a conceptual thing. You are right: it knows nothing of death. It just screams in mortal terror when it is left unloved. It does not "know" why it is screaming. The mother is instinctively programmed to respond by not letting that happen. Her body and her love are programmed to not allow that to happen. Children raised with rag doll mommies (emotionally unresponsive) grow up emotinally defective, sociopathic I believe is the term. Something like it happens with chimps I believe who are raised, actually, with stuffed mother substitutes.

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Originally posted by b4rry:
Amend my point 2 above: All fear is learned since a child comes into this world not knowing meanings beyond whatever associations acquired during pregnancy. Everything is an amorphous unknown until it acquires shape and meaning through experience.

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B: I do not know what current psychology concludes about this one. It used to be that certain fears--such of falling--were innate, unlearned. My own opinion is that, obviously, we are programmed by nature to certain fears, death being one of them. If fear is, essentially, cellularly the action of withdrawing from threat to survival of the individual, and an attempt to fight in some sense for that end when possible, then at a very primitive level there is the behaviour of fear even when there is no emotion, perhaps, of fear. For example, I like to tell "pacifists" that their immune system is "battling" invaders every second of their lives; this is your own violence in service of your own survival, I tell them. Without this battle going on every moment of your life, I say, you would never have lived long enough to become a "pacifist". Nobody ever agrees with me. Belief systems are too prejudiced and strong. The subtext here is that, when we pay deep enough attention to our bodies, we sense or even experience what we actually are, apart from any belief we have about who we are. That is what people here are doing when they "feel good" doing "bad things". They feel their body feeling good as they are having incest.

My point is that children's bodies, like the immune system, fight to survive. Purely instinctually, cellularly, biologically. They scream in bloody murder when they are left or unloved. This response is programmed by nature to get the mother to return, or community members to rescue the child. And, if you have ever been on a bus and watched heads turn and frowns appear, or worried looks, when an infant screams, you know. Or, better, you feel your own eyes start stinging when it starts crying. We know.

My perceptions and thoughts come from that kind of checking in on my body.

I am biassing my account here in the direction of the pain because it seems to be the bias of the people I have experienced. Ie., we humans seem to carry more stored up pain around than we do stored up joy. That would seem to be an intuitively obvious reality.

I think you have a point when you say incest is part of a continuum of human experience, why section it off and make it such a big thing, I think is one of your points? I would agree if it weren't true that the problem comes from doing just the opposite, that is, making it something special. I mean, it is obviously true that people do NOT regard sleeping with their family members as "just another thing" they do. In the real world, incest is NOT part of a continuum. It won't be until enough people have positive incest in spite of the odds against this because of the taboo. Or until they realize the "solution" society usually offers is often worse than the "problem". And that as, with any taboo, suppressing the behaviour just makes it that much stonger and the act just that much more desirable or irresitible.

I am focused on dad-daughter incest because this was the kind that messed up my previous girlfriend. And it is the kind I have met most in my acquaintances with women. So, it has interested me most. As I said last time, just from my knowledge of my own mother and what I see of women's behaviour towards their young children (to use your continuum idea, since I have no idea if these women are incesting their children), it appears obvious to me that giant mommy's exert tremendous power over their tiny children. The same size matters difference as with giant daddys. Their power is more affectionate, they withhold love more than threaten angry violence, for example, than do giant daddys. However, they are not without that threat as well. I see a tendency to support with reward more than punish with pain in the giant mommys, but they do both. As to incest, I can only reflect on my girlfriend again, whose mother also incest her. My girl friend said she felt that, at least, her mother's incesting was more comforting and nurturing and not violent. She ran from her father's torture (actual) to her mother for some sort of comfort and protection. Her mother fingered her and licked her and this got associated with comfort and protection, although it got mixed in with her hatrid of her father. What a sad, awful mess. I still feel depressed writing this. Anyhow, my point is that cross-generational incest is always about power, however, and as such, has more potential for emotional if not physical damage.